| A. |
It was done mainly by
Lisoform. |
| [Incomplete and
incorrect reply, because disinfestation of clothing was mainly by
hot air in sealed chambers or by high pressure steam in autoclaves.
Lisoform is the German trade name of a 21.5% solution of formic
aldehyde or formalin a powerful and not very toxic antiseptic used
for disinfecting premises and bedding, and for sterilizing surgical
instruments. Sick rooms that have been inhabited by patients with
infectious germs, can be disinfected by gaseous formaldehyde
produced by a special device] |
| Q. |
It was done more with that than
it was done with gas, is that correct? |
| A. |
Mainly by Lisoform. I remember
only once having seen it done by gas. |
[Prepared and loaded
reply, a consequence of the previous one, designed to show that the
prisoners’ barracks were disinfected mainly with Lisoform, a
formalin solution, hence liquid. Unfortunately for the witness, the
only possible disinfestation method for the barracks was GASSING,
using Zyklon B. At first the disinfestation of effects was also done
with Zyklon-B. Hot air and pressurized steam, which can disinfest
and disinfect at the same time, require much more complex
installations and only gradually came to replace hydrocyanic acid
disinfestation, a very effective procedure but one requiring care.
These questions and answers are aimed at proving that
virtually ALL the Zyklon-B delivered by Tesch and Stabow was used in
homicidal gassings, which is wrong as we now know. The trials of the
leading figures of TESCH u. STABENOW (Testa), distributor for the
East, and DEGESCH, the firm that produced Zyklon-B have NO
historical justification. The Managing Director of Degesch, Dr
Peters, knew that Zyklon-B was used in about twenty gas chambers of
about 10m³ unit volume installed by Messrs BOOS, FOR DISINFESTATION
PURPOSES. While he suspected that some of his product may have been
used criminally now and again for “euthanasia” in the case of the
seriously physically or mentally handicapped and incurably sick, it
was not until the summer or autumn of 1944 that he is thought to
have learned of the mass murders by Zyklon-B at Birkenau, and this
through the loose talk of an SS sergeant. In any event, there was
nothing he could do, and he certainly could not refuse to deliver
Zyklon-B to the SS. The stultified and restrictive atmosphere of the
regime, imposed by the war and the SS, curbed any desire for
dangerous curiosity. Under a totalitarian dictatorship, this is a
basic rule of survival. While the Testa and Degesch trials were of
doubtful validity, this is not the case with TOPF & SONS, the
manufacturers of the cremation furnaces, who despite their apparent
innocence were compromised up to the neck in the installation of the
homicidal gas chambers. This is clearly shown by documents of the
period. And yet there was never a “Topf trial”.] |
| Q. |
In the months of May and June
1944 how many tins of Zyklon-B do you estimate were used for
exterminating people? |
| A. |
That stands in relation to the
number of people who have been killed. |
| Q. |
What is the relationship
approximately? |
| A. |
Two tins for one thousand
persons; 25,000 per day; then we may say 50 tins per
day. |
| [It goes without
saying that this calculation is pure imagination, the figure of
25,000 never having been approached on any day, and certainly not
maintained over one or two months] |
| Q. |
What happened to the bodies of
the gassed people? |
| A. |
The bodies were thrown into mass
graves, but, before they were throw into those graves their hair was
cut and their teeth were pulled out; I have seen it. |
| [The witness is here
speaking of practices used at Krematorium V and Bunker 2/V. He
forgets the cremation furnaces of Krematorien II and III. The gaps
in his memory regarding these Krematorien, which he seems to have
visited only rarely, despite his claim to have been the
Sonderkommando doctor, are worrying. They reveal his reluctance to
speak about his own activities in his normal place of work, which
was the experimental barracks in the Gypsy Camp. It is rare to find
a Sonderkommando survivor who is willing to talk about the whole of
the period without self censorship of some sort. Filip Müller in
his “Trois ans dans une chambre à gaz d’Auschwitz”
forgets to say that he survived the selections because he was
“protected” by a Sudeten SS man. David Olère states that he worked
ONLY on the waste incinerator. Their behaviour during their period
in the Sonderkommando cannot and should not be judged. They
experienced something beyond the limits of horror and for this
reason are untouchable. But there is no reason why they should not
tell the exact truth instead of trying to pretty things up.]
|
| Q. |
Was the gold preserved from the
teeth or all the teeth? |
| A. |
The National Socialist
government said they did not care about gold; still they managed to
get 17 tons of gold out of the four million bodies. |
| [Dr Miklos Nyiszli
also stresses the contrast between the official “disinterest” of the
Third Reich and this abject recovery of gold from corpses. Though
they did not live together, Nyiszli and Bendel operated in the same
milieu, which explains their identical reactions. In announcing the
collection at 17 tons of gold in reply to a question about teeth,
the witness commits a stupid error. He states under oath that on
average the victims had 4.25 grams of gold in their mouths. This is
beyond the bounds of credibility. Dr Nyiszli states that the “gold
foundry” Krematorium III produced 30 to 35 kg of gold per day, from
teeth AND other objects. This figure, certainly inflated, gives an
average of 7 grammes or so of gold per person for a daily inflow of
4000 people. The 17 tons of gold mentioned by Bendel is a figure
calculated on the basis of the incorrect number of victims, 4
million, multiplied by the true weight of a wedding ring, 3 to 5g.
Gold teeth really accounted for only a small part of the total, but
the rings and jewelry have been conjured away to leave teeth as the
principal source of the gold obtained. The counsel for the defence
could not let such an outrageous claim pass.] |
| Q. |
How long, as a doctor, do you
think it took these people to die with Blausäuregas [prussic acid
gas]? |
| A. |
I should think about two
minutes. |
| Q. |
Who were the actual men who put
the gas into the gas chambers? |
| A. |
The SS. |
| Q. |
Were they specially trained men
or any men? |
| A. |
No: these gentlemen were all
volunteers. |
| [Wrong. They were NCO
medical orderlies, “Sanitdtsdienstgrade” or “SDG”, who had been
trained by Tesch und Stabenow in the handling of Zyklon-B for
disinfestation purposes.] |
| Q. |
What happened to the
Sonderkommandos who worked the crematoria? |
| A. |
200 of them were gassed on the
27th September 1944, 500 were shot during a disturbance which was
unique in the history of a concentration camp. |
| [In the calendar of
events in the camp compiled by Danuta Czech, a PMO official, this
first episode is noted as taking place about 25th. They are supposed
to have been gassed in Kanada I. See Part I, Chapter 4]
|
| Q. |
Was it the policy to exterminate
the Sonderkommando, or did it just so happen that way? |
| A. |
The witnesses who have
experienced such atrocities could not and were not allowed to leave.
|
| [I believe, like the
SS judge Konrad Morgen, that the situation was just as desperate for
the SS employed in the Krematorien and they would have been quietly
got rid of once the extermination was over, being posted to units to
be sacrificed at the front.] |
| Q. |
After the bodies had been thrown
into the pits, what happened to the bodies? |
| A. |
They simply disappeared. They
became ashes. It was a fact that one thousand bodies having been
thrown into such a pit disapppeared in one hour; they became
ashes. |
| |
|
| Cross-examined by
Dr ZIPPEL |
| |
|
| Q. |
You have said that the gas
chambers were ten metres by four metres by one metre sixty
centimetres [the witness had in fact said something more like
1.73m]: is that correct? |
| A. |
Yes. |
| Q. |
Is it right that they are 64
cubic metres? |
| A. |
I am not very certain. This is
not my strong side. |
| |
|
| (Page 31)
|
| |
|
| Q. |
How is it possible to get a
thousand people into a room of 64 cubic metres? |
| A. |
This one must ask oneself. It
can only be done by the German technique. |
| [But the laws of
physics are universal] |
| Q. |
Are you seriously suggesting
that in a space of half a cubic metre you could put ten men [in fact
a little less than 8]? |
| A. |
The four million people who were
gassed in Auschwitz are the witnesses. |
| Q. |
Is it not possible that you are
in error concerning the figures you have given? |
| A. |
It is possible that the details
are incorrect as one could not bother about ten or fifty or even a
thousand in these figures, but anyway, the main facts
remain. |
[An argument used over
and over again over the last 40 years, aimed at blocking any
detailed research into the gas chamber exterminations. On 21st
February 1979, on page 23 of the French newspaper “Le
Monde”, 34 French historians signed a declaration on the
“Faurisson Affair”, concluding in these terms:
“One should
not ask how, technically, such a mass murder was possible. It
was technically possible because it happened. This is the obligatory
point of departure for any historical research on this subject. It
was our duly simply to recall this truth: there is not and cannot be
any argument about the existence of the gas chambers.”
On
the contrary: WE MUST ASK HOW SUCH A MASS MURDER WAS TECHNICALLY
POSSIBLE. My work is the result of such research. This has enabled
me to demolish certain absurd theories, expose certain lies and
correct certain errors. But over the ruins of the old cob walls, the
documents found in Poland and the Soviet Union have laid the new
concrete foundations that will withstand the test of time.]
|
| Q. |
Who were these four million
people who were being killed? |
| A. |
There were men, women, children
and old people. |
| Q. |
Were these people who were
gassed rich people or poor people? |
| A. |
It was difficult to tell from
the clothing whether they were rich or poor, but they were certainly
belonging to all classes of society. |
| Q. |
When you say that 17 tons of
gold were collected from these corpses, do you then count a ton as
having 1000 kgs? |
| A. |
Yes. |
| Q. |
Then you would say that per
person, man, woman, child or baby, they had on average four grams of
gold in their mouths? |
| A. |
It must have been that some had
more and some had less or nothing; it depended on the state of their
teeth or their dentures. |
| Q. |
Was the disinfection being
carried out by special squads of the SS? |
| A. |
The disinfection of the camp,
yes. |
| Q. |
Is it right that the gas was
being delivered to the camp by the Red Cross? |
| A. |
No; it was not being delivered
by the Red Cross; it was brought in Red Cross vans. There is quite a
difference between the two. |
| Q. |
Is it known to you that Lisoform
is a disinfectant only against germs, but not against insects in
clothing? |
| [Formalin is an
antiseptic, effective against microbes, but is not an insecticide
and is useless against lice, for example.] |
| A. |
There was no disinfection
intended, as these people brought into concentration camps were not
brought there to be disinfected or kept clean or kept healthy, but
to be disposed of. |
| [In 1944, there were
two categories of Jewish deportees: those unfit for work, who were
destined for the gas chambers, and those fit for work, who received
some very limited care from the impoverished Reich of the period.
For those selected for work, the first thing on entering the camp
was disinfestation treatment. The witness gives a deformed version
of the facts.] |
| |
|
| DR ZIPPEL: We have no
further questions. |
| |
| MAJOR DRAPER: No
re-examination. |
| |
| (The witness
withdraws) |
|
| CERTIFICATE |
| |
| I, Alfred H ELBAU, US civilian. AGO No A-1655313, US
Department of rhe Army. OCCWC. Numberg. herewith certify that the
above copy is a true and correct copy of excerpt from the official
transcript of the 2nd day of a trial by Military Court of Bruno
TESCH, Joachim DROSIHN and Karl WEINBACHER which took place from 1
to 8 March 1946 at The War Crimes Court, Curichaus. Hamburg.
Document received on 15th, September 1947 by OCCWC from War Crimes
Group (North West Europe) at HQ. BAOR |
| |
(Signature) Alfred H Elbau
Alfred
H ELBAU |
| |
| “A CERTIFIED TRUE
COPY” |
