14 Nov. 45

proceedings, the British Prosecutors would welcome that procedure, but if his joinder involves any further delay in the Trial of the existing defendants, we are opposed to it.

THE PRESIDENT: May I ask you: Do you agree that according to the Municipal Law of Great Britain, in the same way that I understood it to be the law of the United States of America, a man in the mental and physical condition of Gustav Krupp could not be tried?

SIR HARTLEY SHAWCROSS: I do, Sir. I take the same view, if I may say so, with respect, as Mr. Justice Jackson took upon the question you addressed to him.

THE PRESIDENT: And in such circumstances, the prosecution against him would not be dismissed, but he would be detained during the pleasure of the sovereign power concerned.

SIR HARTLEY SHAWCROSS: Yes, Sir.

THE PRESIDENT: That is one question that I wanted to put to you. Do you then suggest that, in the present circumstances, Gustav Krupp ought to be tried in his absence, in view of the medical reports that we have before us?

SIR HARTLEY SHAWCROSS: Well, it is a matter which is entirely in the discretion of the Tribunal, and which I do not wish to press in any way; but as the evidence involving his firm will in any event be laid before the Tribunal, it might be convenient that he should be represented by counsel, and that the Tribunal, in arriving at its decision, should take account, as it necessarily would, of his then condition.

THE PRESIDENT: Is there any precedent for such a course as that, to hold that he could not be tried and found guilty or not guilty and yet to retain counsel to appear for him before the Tribunal?

SIR HARTLEY SHAWCROSS: No, Sir, I was not suggesting that he should not be treated as being an existing defendant before the Tribunal and held guilty or not. I was dealing with the subsequent course which the Tribunal might adopt in regard to him if they held him guilty of some or all of these offenses.

THE PRESIDENT: But I thought you agreed that according to, at any rate, Municipal Law, a man in his physical condition ought not be tried.

SIR HARTLEY SHAWCROSS: I am not agreed that according to English Municipal Law he could not be tried.

THE PRESIDENT: And that law is based upon the interests of justice?