4 Jan. 46

HÖLLRIEGEL: I think that he has probably changed a little in recent times, but I would certainly remember him.

COL. AMEN: How long ago was it that you saw him there?

HÖLLRIEGEL: That was in the fall of 1942. Since then I have not seen him.

COL. AMEN: Will you look around the courtroom and see whether you can see Schirach in the courtroom?

HÖLLRIEGEL: Yes.

COL. AMEN: Which person is it?

HÖLLRIEGEL: In the second row, the third person from the left.

COL. AMEN: The affidavit to which I referred was Exhibit Number USA-515.

HE PRESIDENT: What is the PS number?

COL. AMEN: 2753-PS.

[Turning to the witness ] I now show you a copy of Document Number 2641-PS and ask you whether you can recognize the place where those individuals are standing?

HÖLLRIEGEL: As far as can be seen from the picture, it is a quarry. Whether it is at Mauthausen or not one cannot determine exactly, because the view is too small.

COL. AMEN: Would you repeat that answer please?

HÖLLRIEGEL: Certainly. As far as can be seen from this picture, it is not possible to say definitely if this is the Wiener-Graben quarry which adjoined Mauthausen. It might easily be another quarry. A larger range of vision is required. But I think that visits were often made there. I assume that this is the Wiener-Graben quarry.

COL. AMEN: Very good. Just lay the picture aside for the time being. Did you have occasion to observe the killing of inmates of the concentration camp by pushing them off a cliff?

HÖLLRIEGEL: Yes.

COL. AMEN: Will you tell the Tribunal what you saw with respect to that practice?

HÖLLRIEGEL: I remember, it was in 1941. At that time I was with a guard company on the tower which closed off the area of the Wiener-Graben quarry. I was able to observe in the morning about six to eight prisoners who came with two SS men. One was Hauptscharführer Spatzenöcker and the other, Unterscharführer Edenhofer; they moved about and made strange gestures ...

THE PRESIDENT: Wait, you are going too fast. You should go slower.