15.4.46

THE PRESIDENT: The witness can retire.

Dr. Kauffmann, does that close your case?

DR. KAUFFMANN: Mr. President, I wish to call another witness with the permission of the Tribunal, the witness Neubacher.

Hermann Neubacher, a witness, took the stand and testified as follows:

BY THE PRESIDENT:

Q. Will you state your full name?

A. Hermann Neubacher.

Q. Will you repeat this oath after me:

I swear by God the Almighty and Omniscient that I will speak the pure truth and will withhold and add nothing?

(Witness repeated oath.)

DIRECT EXAMINATION

BY DR. KAUFFMANN:

Q. Witness, what was your position before the war and during the war?

A. For five years during the war I was abroad on diplomatic missions. Before the war I was Mayor of the city of Vienna.

Q. Do you know the defendant Kaltenbrunner?

A. I do.

Q. Since when have you known him?

A. I met Kaltenbrunner for the first time in Austria in 1934 in connection with the so-called appeasement action of the engineer Reinthaler in Austria. Later I saw him again, after the Anschluss.

Q. In the year 1943 Kaltenbrunner was appointed Chief of the R.S.H.A. Are you acquainted with that fact?

A. Yes, I-am.

Q. Do you know whether Kaltenbrunner was glad to take this position?

A. Kaltenbrunner told me, I believe at the end of 1943, that he did not wish to take that position, that he had declined three times but then had received a military order to accept. He added that he had requested and had been given a promise to be relieved of this office after the war.

Q. Did you have the opportunity or opportunities to judge how the defendant regarded his task as chief of the R.S.H.A.?

A. I had a number of conversations with Kaltenbrunner during my official visits to the Main Office from time to time, but they all dealt with foreign intelligence and foreign policy.

Q. The R.S.H.A. was in control of the Gestapo. Are you familiar with that fact?

A. Yes.

Q. According to your knowledge of the defendant's character, can you tell whether he had the prerequisites and the qualifications necessary for the position of chief of the police executive?

A. Kaltenbrunner, as far as I was acquainted with him, had no knowledge of police work when he assumed his office. In the year 1941 he wanted to leave the police.

Q. What proofs do you have for this?

A. At that time I was a special representative for economic questions in Roumania. Kaltenbrunner told me that he did not like a police career and did not understand anything about police work and, furthermore, had no interest in it. He was interested, however, in foreign political affairs.

THE PRESIDENT: The Tribunal does not think that is really evidence which ought to be given. It cannot affect his official position, the fact that he did not like it.

Q. Kaltenbrunner was called the successor of Heydrich. Can that be considered entirely true?

A. It cannot, and I know that because...

THE PRESIDENT: That's a matter of argument. This witness's opinion cannot