himself about the matter. I did so by telephone on the same day, and I then informed Hitler about my conversation with Bouhler. Thereupon he drafted a formulation of this decree, not in the form we have here, but in a similar form, and certain changes were made. My request was that a precaution be introduced because of the medical participation, and I used an expression for this which was familiar to me from expert opinions. It stated that euthanasia could be carried out on persons and then comes the formulation "who are incurable with a probability bordering on certainty." Since this formulation was strange to him, "on the most careful diagnosis of their condition of sickness" was added. Therefore, when this decree was signed about the end of October, the text read as follows: "Reichsleiter Bouhler and Dr. Brandt are charged with the responsibility of extending the authority of certain doctors, to be designated by name in such a manner that persons who, according to human judgment, are incurably sick, can, on the most careful diagnosis of their condition of sickness, be accorded a mercy death."

Q. Did you talk to Bouhler?

A. At first I only talked to Bouhler on the telephone and even after the decree was signed I did not talk to him immediately but sent the signed decree to him in Berlin.

Q. And what was Hitler's idea of euthanasia? What did he understand by it?

A. The decisive thing for him was also expressed here in the decree, namely, that incurably sick persons — actually it should have read insane persons — other persons were absolute exceptions — could be accorded a mercy death. That is, therefore, a measure dictated by purely humane considerations, and nothing else could be thought under any circumstances, and nothing else was ever said to me.

Q. You said that the Fuehrer gave you the assignment on the basis of a telephone call from Bouhler? The call from Bouhler could not have been the only reason. There must have been others.

A. It was not a telephone call. There was some kind of a documentary incident which was decisive. It may be that the Fuehrer already had these documents or that Bouhler spoke to him again about them. I don't know exactly. But this was not the cause of the Euthanasia Program being started. In his book, "Mein Kampf,'' Hitler had already referred to it in certain chapters, and the law for the "prevention of the birth of children suffering from hereditary diseases" is a proof that Hitler had definitely concerned himself with such problems earlier. The law for the "prevention of the birth of children suffering from hereditary diseases" is actually a law which followed the events. It certainly arose because children with congenital diseases existed. Proof that this is a problem which affects the whole