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Volume III · Page 1141
| Incorporated Eastern Territories after the
occupation of Poland. In this capacity he handled many of the cases tried
pursuant to the decree against Poles and Jews. In defense of these acts, Joel
testified that "he felt obligated by the existing laws and so complied with
them." Joel did not have the same view as other officials that after the
surrender of the Polish nation the nationals of the annexed part of Poland
became German nationals. He testified that such a Polish citizen after 1
September 1939 remained a Polish national and that "a Polish national is never
a German." Joel frankly admitted that he knew he was not dealing with Germans
but with foreign nationals. In his capacity as Referent for the Incorporated Eastern Territories Joel, as liaison officer between the Reich Ministry of Justice and the Gestapo, took part in conferences with others from Department IV concerning the disposition of such Jewish and Polish cases. In one instance he reported having discussed an order of Himmler's as to the treatment Poles and Jews should receive. In another instance he reported ordering the transfer of Poles who had been sentenced to a penal camp for 3 years to the Gestapo. As a witness, Schlegelberger testified concerning transfers to the police, which he described as "a very sad chapter for anyone who has a sense of justice." Guertner protested against this procedure and made compilations of press reports concerning executions by the police. |
"Lammers actually submitted these compilations to Hitler but told Guertner later Hitler had said that he had not given a general directive to carry out these shootings, but in individual cases he could not do without these measures because the courts, that was military courts as well as civil courts, were not able to take care of the special conditions as created by the war. And, Lammers at the same time announced that Hitler in a further case had already ordered the execution by shooting." |
| Schlegelberger testified further that after an order had been made for the transfer of a prisoner to the police, there was a time limit of 24 hours, at the end of which the police were required to report that the order had been executed. Schlegelberger states that Guertner charged the defendant Joel with the mission of representing the Ministry of Justice with the police in connection with these transfers. It appears that the Ministry of Justice, through Joel, was able to intervene in some cases and to prevent the transfers. Schlegelberger testified: |
" * * * the attempts to intervene on the part of the Ministry of Justice were successful in some cases but, if all possibilities had been exhausted, and if in spite of that he had |
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