Fuehrer Order? Is that what you said?"

"Yes. He would have been shot, even " * * * " if he had not been a member of one of these organizations."

"Q. If he had not belonged to an organization he would have been shot anyway?

"A. He would have been shot if he had not been one of the perpetrators, but if, for some reason, he had merely been hiding with the group because he had to be seized, in accordance with the Fuehrer Order. 

"Q. * * * so that whether he belonged to an illegal organization, that is, partisan or saboteurs, or not, he was bound to be shot because, if he wasn't shot as a saboteur or an active partisan, he would be shot under the Fuehrer Order? That's correct, isn't it?

"A. He was shot in accordance with the Fuehrer Order — yes. I would like to add * * * that, of course, an interrogation was carried out in this particular case to see ‘is he a member of an organization or is he not’.

"Q. And in each case you found out he was a member of an organization, an illegal organization?

"A. One of these three groups.

"Q. Yes, now if you had found out that he was not a member of one of these illegal organizations, saboteur, partisan, or a resistance movement, you would have shot him anyway because he was a Jew and fell under the Fuehrer Order, that's right, isn't it?

"A. Yes, that is correct.

"Q. What was the necessity of the investigation if the result was that he always would be shot? What was the reason for wasting all this time on a man you were going to shoot anyway?

"A. Interrogations were carried out to find out whether he was a member of an organization. If such was the case he was carefully questioned concerning all liaison members, number of members of this particular organization, and their activities. That was the purpose of the interrogation."