and not of a war nature. And he, was able to prove to me that I had obtained no clear medical information, only assumption, and the clinical conditions resulting might perhaps be expected after surgery at home. For another reason, which can be seen from the documents, the argument became rather violent. Grawitz turned to Fischer, who presented the cases to him. At any rate he then said, unfortunately, that a speedy clarification had to be reached and that wounds similar to combat wounds had to be created, that is, a gunshot infected by earth and matter. Of course, I did not accept these conditions and I looked for some way to get the experiment into my own hands so that, using all safeguards, a higher degree of infection be brought about and the cases might still remain under my control. I did not want to give up and say, "I have not reached any conclusion," thereby impliedly giving permission for wounds similar to combat wounds to be inflicted elsewhere. And so we arrived at the idea of tying off the arteries of the third group, which is also a customary means of bringing about a locus minoris resistentiae in international experimental technique.

Q. You did not carry out the order then?

A. No.

Q. Then how were the experiments continued in order to create severe local inflammation in warlike wounds?

A. We kept to our old technique, the infusion that is an incision on the outer side of the calf far from the joint, where it is not under pressure, and where the cast does not hurt it. In other words we chose the most suitable place according to all medical considerations. Then we administered the infection in a place where the circulation of the blood had been reduced.

Q. What do you know about the deaths, and why was there no amputation in these cases?

A. I believe that I can remember the three deaths very well. But I only remember three — I have always testified that — with all the things that have happened in the meantime and all the patients I have taken care of. It was not that Fischer or I overlooked an amputation, and it is certainly not true that an amputation can save the life of the patient in all cases of gangrene. As I remember the case histories, the most serious patient had a large abscess on the hip. Probably the corresponding glands had been affected. The infection on the calf and the abscess on hip — what can I amputate? One can amputate when the infection is limited to the calf. We did not have such cases because we forced the infection to the place where we wanted it, but we were not able to prevent the infection spreading to a different area and running into the blood vessel as does happen oc- [...casionally]

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