NMT01-T694
Volume I · Page 694
where large quantities of serum were used at the time in the therapy against diphtheria once it had broken out, because the highly concentrated serum was no longer available in necessary quantities — I told him that in the case of such diseases one should watch to see whether injury from phenol might result. I told him also that it would be desirable to know whether serum without phenol would definitely prevent such shock. I also remember that this point too had connection with the fact that we had negotiated with the Behring Works for the production of serum frequently in small quantities in order to use it, and to compare it with other serum. If I remember correctly this involved diphtheria serum, that is the serum which is used most in Germany. The comparison was to be made of symptoms following the administration of the usual antidiphtheria serum containing phenol on children, and it was to be noted whether the symptoms would appear; and the symptoms following the administration of serum free of phenol were also to be noted. This was what Grawitz meant here, and he called that a series of experiments. I might point out that this expressed series of experiments in this case cannot refer to artificial infection, because it is not possible to have a human being artificially infected with diphtheria serum.
Q. Doctor, after receiving this confirmation of your proposals to perform experiments as outlined in this letter, you must have issued orders in that regard. Now to whom did you issue those orders?
A. No. I did not issue any orders. In my opinion this concerns activities of some civilian hospitals; for among the troops, and in concentration camps, we did not have any diphtheria patients.
Q. Just a moment, Doctor. But it is said in this letter that Grawitz agrees that these experiments can be carried out in the Department for Typhus and Virus Research of the Hygiene Institute of the Waffen SS in Weimar-Buchenwald. Did you or did you not carry out these experiments in Weimar-Buchenwald ?
A. No.
Q. Never issued any orders to carry out such experiments to Ding, for instance?
A. I have already explained what this series of experiments means. It is possible that I suggested, for example, that he was to vaccinate one child with one kind of serum and another child with another serum. That is possible; I don't remember about that. But to try out serum containing phenol on human beings, that I did not order. * * *
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The defendants Karl Brandt, Gebhardt, Rudolf Brandt, Mrugowsky, Poppendick, Brack, Pokorny, and Oberheuser were charged with
