. NMT03-T0213
Volume III · Page 213
Above the co-workers there were the Referents.* They were older officials who held the rank of Oberregierungsrat or ministerial counsellor [Ministerialrat].* Above them the next category was the subdepartment chiefs [Unterabteilungsleiter]. These subdepartment chiefs were either senior ministerial counsellors [Ministerialraete] or Ministerialdirigenten.* Above them there were the department chiefs [Abteilungsleiter], as a rule a ministerial director.* Sometimes it was a Ministerialdirigent. Above them, but only temporarily, there was an assistant under secretary [Unterstaatssekretaer]. Above him there was one or several under secretaries [Staatssekretaeren].* At the very top there was the Reich Minister.* When one keeps that survey in mind, the answer to the question which counsel put to me becomes fairly clear. The subdepartment chief was between the Referent and the department chief. His task was to take reports from the Referent on matters which were of a somewhat supernormal importance; matters which were altogether normal and clear and unambiguous, where there were no misgivings, no doubts, there the Referent made the decision. But as soon as a matter, from any point of view, assumed somewhat greater significance, he had to report on it to the chief who, in turn, had to consider as to whether he himself was competent to decide on the question. If it was of real significance, a report had to be made to a higher authority, to the department chief, to the State Secretary, and possibly to the Minister. In the absence of the department chief, the subdepartment chief had to deputize for him in his business as department chief. And the organization with us was such that every subdepartment chief for his sphere of work had to undertake that work as a deputy. In the big department IV, which has been discussed here such a great deal, there were in the end six subdepartment chiefs, each of whom had his own sphere of work. When the department chief was absent, each one of the six subdepartment chiefs had to deputize for the department chief within and for his own sphere of work. In the main, my defense counsel has already explained the matter in his opening statement, and I may therefore refer to it. As concerns myself as a subdepartment chief, I too had to deputize for the department chief when matters were concerned which belonged within my sphere of work as a subdepartment chief.
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* For various periods of time under the Hitler regime. over half of the defendants held one or more of the various titles and positions which the defendant Mettgenberg here proceeds to describe. For example, the defendant Joel was a Referent and later a ministerial counselor; the defendant von Ammon and Westphal were ministerial counsellors; the defendant Mettgenberg himself was a Ministerialdirigent; the defendants Altstoetter and Engert were ministerial directors; and the defendants Schlegelberger, Klemm and Rothenberger were Under Secretaries. Only two Persons held the position of Reich Minister of Justice during the Hitler regime Guertner and Thierack, both of whom were dead by the time of the trial. The defendant Schlegelberger was acting Reich Minister of Justice between the death of Guertner in January 1941 and Thierack's appointment as Minister in August 1942.
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